If the Bible really does promote "free speach" and "liberty" why was there such a time as the "dark ages"?

Last I checked, the Church had nearly unlimited power over everyone (including all European monarchs) if the Bible really had "promoted free speech" and "democracy" why did it favour a "divine right to rule" rather then "democracy"? Wasn't that "religious persecution" the sole reason that the original pilgrims got on the Mayflower, it was for "religious freedom"...And yet, people state that Christianity had created America........if America was created on the basis of Christianity, why is there religious freedom? Even Christ stated, "The only way through God is through me!"............in short you can not say that the founding fathers were "fundamentalist Christians" as with each group of them, there is always a sense of superiority within them about their own interpretations and understanding of the "Truth".......and why would a Christian give people freedom to actively preach what in your opinion is "heresy" to innocents?

If the Bible really does promote "free speach" and "liberty" why was there such a time as the "dark ages"?
The concepts of liberty, justice and free speach are not biblical. Individuals such as John Locke and Thomas Jefferson and several other philosophers conceived these concepts and incorporated them into our founding father's writings and documentation to govern this country. These concepts were completely new considering they were incorporated into the genesis of a government.



People who claim these were biblical concepts are completely and utterly clueless when it comes to American history as well as the bible. This country was NEVER based on christian principals. In fact, the forefathers went so far as to create a foundational document that prevents religious persecution or government interference with an individual's right to practice whatever religion they chose, specifically because they did not like the way religion had a way of trying to become theocracy when mixed with government.



Further, the dark ages are a reflection of thousands of years of history and science lost because christian monks specifically took manuscripts that other scholars (greek and babyonian, etc..) that explained various astrological and mathematical concepts and "cleaned" them so they could be used to copy christian manuscripts. Much history, science and philosophies were lost, hence the "dark" ages.



SunBeam: the bible does not say that the only way to god is through Jesus, that is a common but erronous mistranslation. Greek and hebrew, as well as most persian languages uses a present perfect tense that cannot be translated with "only", this is an insertion that english uses to clarify what is ambiguous in the german or english translation, but the greek or hebrew is NOT ambiguous. The verbs used are present perfect tense with a progressive (therefore continuous or ongoing) all-inclusive single artical.

"I am the light, the truth and the way" does not refer to three nouns, but to three continuous verbs that in a language that defines such a tense, is all inclusive of all light, all truth and all ways. There is no "only" in the translation. Simply put, Jesus was saying he was the door to his father by which all people pass. He was saying that he was all light, all truth and all ways. Remember he was taking his belief outside of judaism and giving it to the gentiles. He beleived is was truth for all people, not just a certain exclusive few.
Reply:atheism predates the monothestic Abrahamic religions



and guess what



the atheism of then was the most barbaric and savage (women rapin, children killing) that was atheism OLD SKOOL



this new school- whimp leader- dawkins- pseudo scientific- moronic- asshatery that they claim is 'gentle' atheism, basically equates to what i do in the toilet with less substance then what is in itchens bloodstream of course
Reply:So now God is responsible for the Dark Ages and ignorance, and the country was not founded by Christians.



Deluded.



Unbelievable.
Reply:because back then about 2% of people could acutally read the bible, so you had to rely on what your priest told you, which was what he wanted to tell you so the church could control the people
Reply:i just love reading these incoherent rants from religious freaks. It just goes to show that you have to be nuts to follow any religion.
Reply:Can you say ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH? Why do you think Protestantism caught on so big time?
Reply:Where does it say anything about free speech and liberty in the Bible?
Reply:People and satan?
Reply:The answer to your question is simple, free agency. "Christ stated, "The only way through God is through me!"" This is true but people still have the right to choose how they are going to live their life. Christ has provided all the answers for us to live the most joyfull happy life possible but we still have the right to choose how we want to live our life, and live with the consequences that follow whether good or bad. America was founded on Christianity, but again the divine principle of free agency comes into play. People have the right to choose. God does not force obedience. But he does warn us of the natural consequences that will follow. For example say their is a cliff in front of you. Do you jump or not. It is your choice. You can choose, and which ever choice you make you will have to live with the consequences that follow. Whether it good or bad. This is where the atonement of Christ comes into play. But I am not going to go into that. Anyways hope that helped.
Reply:The Bible does not promote free speech and never has. It is the constitution that promotes free speech. In religous circles, you always have freedom of speech as long as it does not conflict with current church doctrine. Galileo suffered extreme pressure from the church when he stated his concept that not everything in the heavens orbits the earth, (which he observed through his telescope while watching the moons of Jupiter.' It opposed church doctrine of the earth being the center of the universe. A scientific fact, but it is defined as heresy.



The founding fathers may have believed in some form of Christianity, but among these individuals, a number of them were deist. They felt it was important not to have government force someone else's belief system down your throat at gunpoint.



deism - : a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe. Deism is belief in God based on the application of our reason on the designs/laws found throughout Nature. In their mind, God gave us reason, not religion. Thomas Payne Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and Benjamin Franklin were known for the deist beliefs. "In God We Trust", a motto that is on US currency does not necessarily refer to the God of Abraham.



I believe it is a true statement that the founding fathers of the united states had a deep faith concerning their belief in God, but I feel it would be stretching the true to place a label on this God as being 100% Christian.



Faith based religions require an individual to have faith above all else. If scientific data contradicts faith, then science is ignored. Deism would have the argument that there is truth in God. If we observe God's creation through the use of reason and observe events that controdict our current understanding, they are more inclined to believe the error is lies more with their understanding of the universe and less with God's attempt to pull the wool over their eyes.



They way you stated your question leads me to believe that you are in error with your understanding of experiences and thought processes of the founding fathers.
Reply:A) I don't know why you think that the bible promotes free speech and liberty (and democracy - a greek concept). It doesn't. Nor does it restrict them.



B) From the way you talk about it, I suspect you have a misperception of what the "dark ages" was and what made it "dark".



C) The bible did not favor "devine right of rule", it is a concept that rulers promoted in order to keep the masses down.



D) England had no seperation of church and state. The church did not rule the state; the state ruled the church. Anybody who believed (religiously) any different than what the state told the church to preach was persecuted. This is a major reason why the founding fathers wanted a separation of church and state.



E) I don't know anybody, but the most fundamentalist of fundamentalist Christians who claim that the founding fathers were fundamentalist. Realize, however, that the term "conservative" when applied to religion means "fundmentalist" and the term "liberal" means that you allow for much more "interpretation" of scripture. While I would not catagorize the founding fathers as "fundamentalist", they were more conservative than most Christians today. Having said that, the founding fathers were a mixed bag of people, including a few atheists.



What most fundamentalists fail to realize is that if it were not for the freedom of religion that we enjoy in the U.S.A., their religion would not exist. If you look at state run religions, the church is run by the state - not vice versa. That means atheists, agnostics, liberal and conservative christians all get to vote on what the church believes. Look at the anglican church (the church of England) - they are one of the most liberal forms of Christianity (openly gay bishops, etc.). Conservatives poo poo the separation of church and state, somehow deluding themselves to think that if there were no separation, then the state would look more like (their) the church. The reality is, their church would look more like the anglican church.